Stephen Cass: Howdy and welcome to Fixing the Future, an IEEE Spectrum podcast, the place we take a look at concrete options to some massive issues. I’m your host, Stephen Cass, a senior editor at IEEE Spectrum. And earlier than we begin, I simply need to let you know you can get the newest protection from a few of Spectrum’s most necessary beats, together with AI, local weather change, and robotics, by signing up for certainly one of our free newsletters. Simply go to spectrum.ieee.org/newsletters to subscribe. Sustainable electronics is turning into an more and more necessary subject all over the world, and in the present day we’re going to be speaking with Liisa Hakola, a senior scientist at VTT in Finland, concerning the European Union’s Sustronics program aimed toward this very subject. I’d prefer to welcome you to the present. Thanks a lot, Liisa.
Liisa Hakola: Thanks. Good to be right here. Thanks for inviting.
Cass: You’re very welcome. In order I mentioned, sustainable electronics is turning into a much bigger and greater subject, however it appears to be a kind of issues that folks discuss it greater than truly doing something about it. How is the EU Sustronics undertaking going to assist with that, and the place does VTT match into that?
Hakola: Thanks for the query. Certainly, the Sustronics undertaking is a big initiative with 46 companions from 11 completely different European nations. And our essential subject is about discovering methods to make electronics extra sustainable all through their life cycle. So not simply specializing in one facet however making an allowance for completely different alternatives that may come up from choice of supplies or manufacturing applied sciences or round financial methods that could possibly be used. And VTT’s function is, to start with, to be the technical supervisor of the undertaking to make sure that the completely different companions work collectively and the completely different actions are interacting with one another with a view to have a joint effort. However on high of that, VTT additionally brings a few of its applied sciences, primarily from printed electronics, to the undertaking.
Cass: Is it a case that you just search for business companions who then are available and work with you? They give the impression of being round. They suppose you’re a superb match inside the program. Or are you actively looking for folks and going, “Oh, we expect we’ve some expertise that may aid you out right here”?
Hakola: Properly, principally, I believe they’re each methods. After all, there are 46 companions already within the consortium, and over half of them are from the business, massive enterprises and SMEs. So after all, they’ve particular wants, and we’ve been already agreeing in the course of the proposal section that VTT may supply sure applied sciences for them to then begin testing for his or her merchandise and if that might assist with reducing their environmental footprint.
Cass: I suppose the query is, why would anyone be a part of this system, particularly should you’re a producer and so forth? I imply, as a citizen of Earth, I believe it’s an awesome thought, however we regularly hear about bottom-line points and so forth. What’s the inducement, if you’re someone who’s making electronics, to turn into certainly one of these companions?
Hakola: Properly, to start with, within the EU, we’ve this Inexperienced Deal. So the rules and the laws is creating right into a course the place all the corporations within the EU must consider the sustainability points of the merchandise they’re creating and promoting. So with a view to obtain that, to have the ability to meet the necessities coming from the EU facet, the businesses must develop new methods to take care of or enhance sustainability of their merchandise. And that is one alternative as a result of collaborating with the analysis institutes and universities, the businesses get entry to form of applied sciences which have been in improvement in these, after which they’ll strive them out in their very own merchandise, after which in that solution to get nearer to assembly the sustainability necessities.
Cass: So we’re based mostly in New York, in the USA, the place it’s fairly a unique regulatory regime. However are you able to inform me, what’s the enforcement mechanism for these sustainability rules? What occurs should you don’t do it? As a result of I can think about some folks simply considering, oh, it’s only a slap on the wrist, or it’s a advantageous. It’s only a price of doing enterprise. How is these guidelines actually enforced?
Hakola: Properly, after all, EU is creating the rules on a regular basis, so there would possibly come new enforcements sooner or later. However the upcoming regulation about ecodesign for sustainable merchandise, in order that regulation calls for that there’s going to be a digital product passport that may give details about the environmental impression of the product. And that form of data could be obtainable even for shoppers. So truly, if the shoppers are environmentally conscious, they might begin deciding on the merchandise which might be environmentally pleasant. In order that’s, after all, fairly robust solution to make corporations work in the direction of making extra sustainable merchandise. As a result of if shoppers begin deciding on the sustainable merchandise, then the non-sustainable ones will lose their market share.
Cass: So that you talked just a little bit earlier about all the kind of lifecycle and sustainability. Alongside that life cycle, what are a number of the greatest obstacles that presently exist in the direction of making electronics extra sustainable?
Hakola: Properly, there are a few issues which might be fairly dominant. So to start with, the uncooked supplies which might be used for making digital merchandise, they’re principally fossil-based, like completely different metals which might be wanted for making conductive buildings. And likewise, the substrates the place the metals are put, they’re often based mostly on some plastics or plastic composite supplies. After which we are literally speaking about supplies which might be vital or uncommon or fairly useful. So it’s fairly a problem to seek out supplies that might substitute the prevailing supplies as a result of we all know that these are well-performing. So can we truly discover some sustainable options for them?
And one other factor is, after all, that the processes which might be used for making circuit boards, for instance, they devour various power and uncooked supplies. And that, after all, shouldn’t be superb for the surroundings as a result of it’s not very power or materials environment friendly to fabricate in a approach that plenty of materials is wasted and processed a number of occasions. And naturally, the entire electronics business is sort of complicated and fragmented business. There are plenty of layers, and it’s actually troublesome to get all of them to work collectively and kind of transparently switch knowledge and knowledge between the completely different gamers.
Cass: So I’d like to enter that—and possibly that is a few of VTT’s particular experience—and discuss just a little concerning the work that you just’ve carried out in supplies particularly then.
Hakola: Sure. So VTT has targeted quite a bit on changing the fossil-based substrate supplies with supplies which might be bio-based or renewable supplies. And properly, in Finland, the forest business has usually been fairly robust. So after all, we’ve studied tips on how to use the cellulose-based supplies like paper as a substrate for electronics. However there are additionally plenty of these biopolymer-based substrates that are– principally, they feel and appear like plastics, however they’re from bio-based sources, so they’re form of renewable. And a few of them are very easy to recycle, or a few of them may even be compostable.
Cass: You mentioned compostable there. I’m just a little nervous as a result of I’ve these compostable plastic luggage in my kitchen that simply don’t final very lengthy. And so if you say that, I’m just a little involved about placing that in my electronics. Or is it for very short-lived kind of disposable electronics, given a few of them have very brief life cycles?
Hakola: Sure. If we’re speaking about utilizing printing as a producing expertise, so then after all we’re capable of manufacture electronics which have a shorter lifetime, and they are often even used only one time. However should you produce plenty of electronics that’s for single-use function, then truly you might be creating plenty of new digital waste. So it’s a must to someway deal with this problem with having single-use electronics, however then having the ability to someway recycle or dispose that electronics. And in that case, if there’s, for instance, some diagnostic gadget the place you measure one thing, then in all probability there could be a single-use half on that gadget that might then in all probability be compostable. However then there would even be a reusable half. So after performing some diagnostic measurements, you modify just one piece of the gadget, after which that changeable half would then be compostable. Or it will also be that the recycling course of is established, and it might be simply recyclable. However in that form of instances, you would possibly take into consideration the compostable options additionally.
Cass: So I’d like to speak just a little bit extra about recycling there. Digital waste is notoriously very troublesome to waste. We have now to separate out our digital waste and we’ve to place it some place else. There are particular pickup days, which I do dutifully. However then I generally take into consideration when all these things is placed on the valley, how is anyone going to realistically recycle that 10-year-old damaged projector or these assortment of printers and so forth? How do you make recycling work higher?
Hakola: Properly, yeah, that’s after all a matter of— to start with, you could set up the recycling course of, and there must be completely different assortment bins the place folks may dispose their electronics. However after all, I come from Finland. Really, in my residence the place I stay, there are one thing like seven completely different recycling bins the place I put the completely different kind of waste. So including there eighth bin for electronics wouldn’t be that massive of a difficulty. However should you suppose recycling additionally from the scratch, then the digital gadgets truly must be designed in a approach that they’re higher for recycling. So we discuss round design, for instance. Already within the design section of the merchandise, you truly take into consideration the recycling after which design the electronics in a approach that it’s, for instance, modular, so you possibly can disintegrate the completely different parts simply and get better the supplies. So truly, every little thing begins within the design section.
Cass: Does this additionally assist with issues like serviceability or repairability? I discover myself that generally it’s simpler for me to restore one thing that’s 40 years outdated. I’ve introduced these merchandise again from the useless. However a product I purchase in the present day, it’s a blob. I’ve to make use of very specialised instruments to get it open, if I can. I usually must ship away for a particular package. Is a part of this design course of additionally these points?
Hakola: Sure, sure. That’s the identical factor that already within the design section. Design the gadgets in a approach that components could be changed afterward, and folks don’t have to purchase the brand new mannequin. I perceive that, after all, for the electronics corporations, their enterprise to promote new fashions on a regular basis. However maybe they’ll discover a appropriate enterprise mannequin additionally from repairing the gadgets. There could possibly be some enterprise alternatives additionally.
Cass: So that you talked just a little bit about manufacturing processes and making these just a little bit extra sustainable. Are you able to broaden on that?
Hakola: So what VTT has been creating for over 20 years is printed electronics. So it implies that we’re utilizing printing as a producing expertise for electronics. And in comparison with the present state-of-the-art electronics manufacturing, printing is an additive technique. So we truly add supplies solely the place they’re wanted, and we don’t strip them away afterward after which strive to determine what to do with that form of materials. In order that’s a chance for digital manufacturing to lower its materials but in addition power consumption. We have now carried out some life cycle evaluation evaluation the place it has been proven that the printed electronics consumes much less power throughout manufacturing than conventional manufacturing. So there’s truly already a chance there. However in addition to this power problem, the bio-based and renewable substrate supplies are already appropriate with the printing expertise. It’s truly fairly difficult to print these, for instance, paper as a substrate to conventional digital manufacturing. However for printing, it’s fairly straightforward as a result of you can print on paper, so utilizing that to make electronics is a form of simpler process.
Cass: So are you able to discuss just a little bit about a number of the kind of very concrete examples you’ve developed with a few of your companions?
Hakola: Sure. So if you concentrate on the Sustronics program– so there are literally plenty of improvement for these single-use diagnostic gadgets. So the purpose is to develop the form of gadgets that folks can truly even use at dwelling to measure one thing from their saliva, or they’ll monitor how the wound is therapeutic by having only a plaster-type wearable gadget on the pores and skin. And different issues that we’re creating are additionally these different wearable gadgets that aren’t for single use, however they’re for sports activities and health sector the place you possibly can monitor how you might be doing when you find yourself exercising and you’ll even measure your coronary heart charge, after which the app would– the app you’d have in your cell phone would then let you know based mostly on the measurement knowledge that, okay, you probably did properly in the present day or one thing else.
And one utility space that VTT has been creating quite a bit gadgets already within the earlier analysis applications are these options for clever packaging. So if we discuss concerning the packaging business, and there’s a lot of wants within the logistics of packages to measure, for instance, temperature to ensure that the chilly chain has not been damaged and your merchandise usually are not spoiling. So VTT has been creating electronics for that, like sensors connected to packages, digital sensors that may transmit data to cell phone. But when you concentrate on the packaging business, the packages are recyclable. So then truly we’re including electronics there, then the sustainability of those form of sensible tags, how we may name them, could be a very necessary facet to think about. And there, these new form of supplies like utilizing paper as a substrate for electronics have a very necessary function.
Cass: And the way lengthy do you suppose it’ll be earlier than we begin seeing these within the market as one thing that customers can kind of see and really feel for themselves?
Hakola: Properly, truly, a few of them are already on {the marketplace}. After all, not in actually large volumes. However there are, for instance, contract producers for printed electronics that manufacture one thing that’s used as part of a tool that’s offered out there. However after all, we are able to’t print a cell phone with these form of applied sciences, a minimum of not but. So it relies upon. Maybe a few of them are already there. For a few of them, it’d take three to 5 years, and a few even longer. However let’s say in the course of the subsequent decade, there will surely be product bulletins.
Cass: And so that you talked about producers. The place are these producers positioned? Are they native producers, or is that this one thing that we are able to see that’s being built-in into the worldwide provide chain when it comes to these nice manufacturing facilities in China, for instance?
Hakola: Yeah. Properly, after all, the printed electronics contract producers, they don’t seem to be actually massive corporations but. They’re nonetheless on the early section, and they’re positioned all all over the world. Most likely fairly a lot of them within the Europe, as a result of in Europe, we’ve been investigating printed electronics quite a bit. However yeah, there is no such thing as a problem why they couldn’t be a part of the worldwide provide chains. However as we expect, “What’s the technique of the EU?”, we truly need to– the EU needs to additionally transfer once more again to the European provide chains additionally to kind of keep the native strategic availability of key applied sciences. So I believe within the EU, there could be in all probability fairly robust assist sooner or later for making extra producers coming again to Europe or a minimum of establishing new manufacturing models to Europe.
Cass: So should you may wave a magic wand and resolve one drawback proper now that’s in your desk, what would that be?
Hakola: Ah. Properly, in all probability I’d make the merchandise extra repairable or reusable. I’ve personally had some points with the gadgets lately, and it has been a little bit of annoying that there is no such thing as a restore choice. So I’ve been pressured to purchase new gadgets, though I’ve not wished to take action. So in all probability I’d change the enterprise a bit that the restore would at all times be an choice except you have got one thing that’s like 50 years outdated. Maybe that may be a difficulty. However even for a 5-year-old gadget, it might be good to have a restore choice. So I suppose I’d develop the form of design for the electronics that they actually could be repaired or reused.
Cass: Are you able to discuss just a little bit extra about Finland’s historical past with— you mentioned it has this historical past popping out of the cellulose business. So are you able to discuss just a little bit extra about that time, about how Finland’s expertise with cellulose and paper kind of fed into this program?
Hakola: Yeah. Maybe the background is in order that Finland has an extended historical past of paper and forest applied sciences. And the primary printed electronics initiatives that had been initiated in Finland greater than 20 years in the past, there the function of the paper corporations in Finland was actually robust. So truly, a minimum of in Finland, how we began to research printed electronics, the initiative was involving various these forest business corporations. And that’s how we additionally at VTT acquired concerned with utilizing cellulose-based and paper as a substrate for electronics. And if you concentrate on the sustainable electronics, the paper has been there first and solely later got here the opposite options like biopolymers. So I suppose within the early stage, the paper business was truly searching for new enterprise alternatives. And so they thought that it may be discovered from printed electronics as a result of printing on paper is one thing that’s being carried out on a regular basis. In order that’s how I believe the factor began, a minimum of in Finland.
Cass: So this can be a fascinating subject, which we may discuss all day, however I’m afraid we’ve to go away it there. At this time we had been speaking with Liisa Hakola from VTT about sustainable electronics. It was so pretty to have you ever on the present.
Hakola: Thanks. It was pretty being right here.
Cass: And for IEEE Spectrum, I’m Stephen Cass, and I hope you be a part of us subsequent time on Fixing the Future.